About the campaign to oppress America’s small Christian minority
I received an e-mail from a friend today – very smart guy, a former colleague I like and respect a great deal. He was forwarding on a piece from Ben Stein (actually, only part of it was by Stein – someone added some stuff to the end as it made the rounds) and thought it was worthy of passing on. The Stein piece and a fuller analysis of it can be found at Snopes.
____________________
I have some issues with this, actually. Bear with me as I work through it.
Stein acknowledges that he doesn’t like being pushed around because he’s a Jew. Let’s start there. I hear him loud and clear and don’t blame him a bit. And we live in a society with plenty of anti-Semitism, so he has no doubt been on the wrong end of prejudice.
But – there’s a huge “but” here – what about people who aren’t Jews or Christians who don’t like being pushed around for their beliefs? What if you’re a member of a religion that the Christian majority either thinks is evil or false or maybe some of both, and there are actually some among them who believe that you should be put to death for those beliefs (folks who take this passage literally, for instance)?
(And for the record, don’t we really have to get past the idea that Christians are some kind of tormented minority? I mean, come on, let’s look at the White House, the Supreme Court, and both houses of Congress and count the number of people who don’t openly practice and profess Judaism or Christianity. Let me know if the count climbs anywhere near 1% of the total.)
What if Christians have burned crosses in your yard for what you believe?
What if Christian legislators introduce and pass laws that are explicitly aimed at those of your faith?
What if your kid went to school and found himself/herself in the midst of a daily sanctioned prayer ritual to a deity he didn’t believe in, and worse, found himself ostracized (or worse) when he failed to participate enthusiastically? Do you want your children feeling compelled to pray publicly to a god you don’t endorse?
With all due respect to Mr. Stein, who is clearly an intelligent man, everything I describe here is reality. In some cases it’s been aimed at me, and in some cases I’m describing the cases of people I personally know.
In all cases I know of where people who aren’t Christian or Jewish have taken some kind of action that might be interpreted as anti-religious, they have done so because they have felt the weight of the majority leaning on them in ways that made them uncomfortable at best and legitimately afraid for their well-being and freedoms at worst. This isn’t abstract – I can quote you names and dates and details (although I’m unlikely to give up the names of people who are trying to keep their heads down out of fear).
The Constitution is there to protect the minority – the majority doesn’t need protection. And a lawyer of Ben Stein’s status ought to know this. Nobody is preventing him or anybody else from practicing their religion in any way. You have the freedom to worship as you will, but show me where you’re granted the right to have your version of god acknowledged by the state. All the screeching about kicking God out of schools is irrational and hysterical. Nobody has ever prevented a child from praying in school, but if we’d like to know where the Constitution says you can’t do certain things, let’s start with the 1st Amendment. Public schools are official state organizations, and when they sanction prayers to one god over another, that’s official state action. That’s awfully darned close to establishment, in fact.
Hey, I’m not lobbying against anybody. Whatever people believe is cool with me, so long as we all understand the most basic premise of Libertarian doctrine: your freedom ends when it reaches me. How accepting am I of other religions? Well, my best man and one of my groomsmen were Christians. The larger wedding party and the list of invited guests included a variety of Christians (including Mormon), Jews, atheists, agnostics, and pagans of various stripes.
All I want is to know that we do believe what the Constitution seems to clearly intend – we’re all equally free and official state organizations have no business establishing structures or policies that favor one set of beliefs over another.
A Christmas tree on church grounds? Great. One on the campus of a private Catholic university? Ditto. But one on the grounds of the courthouse? Ask yourself how you’d feel if those same courthouse grounds were host to a Wiccan rite to the god and goddess on Samhain? If eight times a year, on the Sabbats, they erected a giant pentagram? And if, when they went to school that day, all children were “encouraged” to join in a circle and asked to help summon the goddess?
If you’re not okay with that, can you show me in the Constitution where it says one is okay but the other isn’t? And if not, can you then make some sort of legal case that explains why your faith is more important than somebody else’s?
In the end, I guess I’d be more willing to respect the practices of Christians and Jews like Stein if they’d demonstrate they have an equal respect for mine in return. So far I’m still waiting, though.
:xpost:
lullaby pit 
Respect? Ah, yes
That lack of respect is, seemingly, not limited to those who don’t profess Christianity or Judaism. It’s often directed also toward those who believe they are Christians, until they run into the very narrow definition of Christianity being promoted by some of these folks — if you’re not in our pew, then you’re not Christian. I was raised Catholic; I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve been listening to something and realized that when the speaker says “Christian,” he/she does NOT mean me.
I’m just old enough to remember prayer in the schools — I was a grade schooler when the Supreme Court, thankfully, said requiring prayer (and let’s be clear: that’s what they really said) was unconstitutional. The prayer my school used was the one people often cite as being unoffensive to all, the Lord’s Prayer. First off, what they really mean is unoffensive to all Christians — I suspect a close friend who’s Hindu might find it as offensive in that setting as you might, Dr. Pit. But they also seem to mean unoffensive to Protestant Christians, since there are two very different versions of that prayer.
I somehow had enough sense to ask my very wise mother how to deal with it. She gave me an answer that worked for my five-year-old self. But my brother didn’t ask and spent the whole year wondering why he was saying the prayer wrong.
Tell me how it advances anything to make a small child feel he or she has learned from his/her parents the “wrong” religion? Or are we really saying that we want prayer back in public places to convince those small children that THIS is the way to pray?
Respect? Ah, yes
That lack of respect is, seemingly, not limited to those who don’t profess Christianity or Judaism. It’s often directed also toward those who believe they are Christians, until they run into the very narrow definition of Christianity being promoted by some of these folks — if you’re not in our pew, then you’re not Christian. I was raised Catholic; I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve been listening to something and realized that when the speaker says “Christian,” he/she does NOT mean me.
I’m just old enough to remember prayer in the schools — I was a grade schooler when the Supreme Court, thankfully, said requiring prayer (and let’s be clear: that’s what they really said) was unconstitutional. The prayer my school used was the one people often cite as being unoffensive to all, the Lord’s Prayer. First off, what they really mean is unoffensive to all Christians — I suspect a close friend who’s Hindu might find it as offensive in that setting as you might, Dr. Pit. But they also seem to mean unoffensive to Protestant Christians, since there are two very different versions of that prayer.
I somehow had enough sense to ask my very wise mother how to deal with it. She gave me an answer that worked for my five-year-old self. But my brother didn’t ask and spent the whole year wondering why he was saying the prayer wrong.
Tell me how it advances anything to make a small child feel he or she has learned from his/her parents the “wrong” religion? Or are we really saying that we want prayer back in public places to convince those small children that THIS is the way to pray?
Re: Respect? Ah, yes
At some level, this circles back around to the “failure of education” issue that I never seem to wander far from. What SO many people don’t realize is that this sep of church/state isn’t there to oppress them, it’s there to PROTECT them. They can’t quite grok that they could very quickly be on the wrong end of things otherwise.
What’s so ironic is that they fail to grasp this EVEN AS THEY’RE SCREECHING ABOUT HOW OPPRESSED THEY ARE.
Re: Respect? Ah, yes
At some level, this circles back around to the “failure of education” issue that I never seem to wander far from. What SO many people don’t realize is that this sep of church/state isn’t there to oppress them, it’s there to PROTECT them. They can’t quite grok that they could very quickly be on the wrong end of things otherwise.
What’s so ironic is that they fail to grasp this EVEN AS THEY’RE SCREECHING ABOUT HOW OPPRESSED THEY ARE.
Re: Respect? Ah, yes
I suspect this is the problem: they do NOT visualize that they’d ever be on the wrong end of that one.
Re: Respect? Ah, yes
I suspect this is the problem: they do NOT visualize that they’d ever be on the wrong end of that one.
Re: Respect? Ah, yes
But how can they not envision it when that’s what THEY’RE SAYING.
[sigh] I need a beer…
Re: Respect? Ah, yes
But how can they not envision it when that’s what THEY’RE SAYING.
[sigh] I need a beer…
Don’t forget….we’re only a month away from the beginning of the War on Christmas!!!! Let the seige begin!
Don’t forget….we’re only a month away from the beginning of the War on Christmas!!!! Let the seige begin!
Happy Ramadan!
Happy Ramadan!
Verily. Praise Satan, brother.
Verily. Praise Satan, brother.
You realize, of course, that this means you’ll be going to Hell.
You realize, of course, that this means you’ll be going to Hell.
CRAP
My trebuchet of heresy isn’t finished yet!
CRAP
My trebuchet of heresy isn’t finished yet!
Even when it’s not overt, it’s sometimes…difficult. I’ll freely admit here that I was one of the “non-christain” groomsmen hanging about your handfasting. 🙂 And at CU, I openly wore my pentagram and acorn and various other “wiccan” symbols without worrying about who saw them.
But I wouldn’t DARE be that open where I work now. I still wear them, they’re just hidden.
There’s just something about having the main campus church sitting right outside my office that kinda makes me a touch nervous. And yes, there is more than one church on my campus…
If that wasn’t enough, it gets even more confusing. The university is a “private non-profit”, so technically it’s not state sponsored. But, we also get federal funding for research. Untangle that one…
Even when it’s not overt, it’s sometimes…difficult. I’ll freely admit here that I was one of the “non-christain” groomsmen hanging about your handfasting. 🙂 And at CU, I openly wore my pentagram and acorn and various other “wiccan” symbols without worrying about who saw them.
But I wouldn’t DARE be that open where I work now. I still wear them, they’re just hidden.
There’s just something about having the main campus church sitting right outside my office that kinda makes me a touch nervous. And yes, there is more than one church on my campus…
If that wasn’t enough, it gets even more confusing. The university is a “private non-profit”, so technically it’s not state sponsored. But, we also get federal funding for research. Untangle that one…
I feel ya. My current wrestling match with the issue is as simple as my employer’s internal newsletter. The backstory is short and sweet. I’ve been here for a while now, get along with most, and have rubbed a couple o folks the wrong way, one of whom I refer to as the prayerlady. I’m with you in that I respect others’ choice of faith. I respect hers. I take umbrage, however, when she wears it on her sleeve as a pity/guilt trip to all around her, and then embarks on a hypocritical lying campaign right to my face. C’est le mort. I’m “sensitive”, heh.
Well, this issue of the newsletter I’m supposed to submit a brief blurb about myself. No style guide provided, had to beg for a link to a previous issue so I could see how others did theirs. I get it. There’s prayerlady’s. With all due respect, I’m pleased to know she’s an avid reader. I couldn’t personally care less, however, that the four most important books she’d read recently were of a distinctly evangelical Christian nature as evidenced by the titles (and knowing her).
Now why on earth do I feel like I can’t include a similar paragraph?
“I’m a voracious reader. The most influential books I’ve read recently include the Corpus Hermeticum, Joseph Cambpell’s four-volume series, The Masks of God, and Mircae Eliade’s 3-vol History of Religious Ideas. I can’t wait until I can crack open my Three Books of Occult Philosophy by Heinrich Cornelius Agrippa and look forward to many discussions with my sweetie about one of my heroes, Giordano Bruno. Oh, and feel free to stop by my cube in between tasks to look at my walls. Currently I have a portrait of John Dee on display as well as an image of a Nordic carving of Yggdrasil.”
But yeah, with a review coming up in a little over a month and them needing to decide that keeping me was a great idea, prudence says to cower before the power of small numbers of folks to royally screw up my life. I must admit…it makes me feel like a grade-A coward, or worse. 10 years ago when nothing was important I’d have had fun with this. Now it’s just what it is…oppressive.
I feel ya. My current wrestling match with the issue is as simple as my employer’s internal newsletter. The backstory is short and sweet. I’ve been here for a while now, get along with most, and have rubbed a couple o folks the wrong way, one of whom I refer to as the prayerlady. I’m with you in that I respect others’ choice of faith. I respect hers. I take umbrage, however, when she wears it on her sleeve as a pity/guilt trip to all around her, and then embarks on a hypocritical lying campaign right to my face. C’est le mort. I’m “sensitive”, heh.
Well, this issue of the newsletter I’m supposed to submit a brief blurb about myself. No style guide provided, had to beg for a link to a previous issue so I could see how others did theirs. I get it. There’s prayerlady’s. With all due respect, I’m pleased to know she’s an avid reader. I couldn’t personally care less, however, that the four most important books she’d read recently were of a distinctly evangelical Christian nature as evidenced by the titles (and knowing her).
Now why on earth do I feel like I can’t include a similar paragraph?
“I’m a voracious reader. The most influential books I’ve read recently include the Corpus Hermeticum, Joseph Cambpell’s four-volume series, The Masks of God, and Mircae Eliade’s 3-vol History of Religious Ideas. I can’t wait until I can crack open my Three Books of Occult Philosophy by Heinrich Cornelius Agrippa and look forward to many discussions with my sweetie about one of my heroes, Giordano Bruno. Oh, and feel free to stop by my cube in between tasks to look at my walls. Currently I have a portrait of John Dee on display as well as an image of a Nordic carving of Yggdrasil.”
But yeah, with a review coming up in a little over a month and them needing to decide that keeping me was a great idea, prudence says to cower before the power of small numbers of folks to royally screw up my life. I must admit…it makes me feel like a grade-A coward, or worse. 10 years ago when nothing was important I’d have had fun with this. Now it’s just what it is…oppressive.
You realize that if you went ahead and posted it and they then took any action at all against you, you’d have a great case to sue, huh? 🙂
You realize that if you went ahead and posted it and they then took any action at all against you, you’d have a great case to sue, huh? 🙂
That appeals to me in a great many ways 🙂 Sadly, I tend to stick with a brutal lesson I learned from an attorney I worked for once upon a time. “You can have all the rights in the world, but if you can’t afford to litigate, what good are they?”
On the other hand, one of the things I *do* like about this place is that’s it’s generally a cause I’m very happy to support (health and wellbeing of mothers and newborns kinda gives me the warm fuzzies). Maybe I could post that paragraph with impunity. I don’t know. But if things went south, I’d feel bad finding out my feel-good employer has a dark side and worse about hurting the good part because of the blindspots only a few here might have.
And on the other hand (what, 3 hands?…After I make it past my 3 month probationary period I’d feel a lot more secure in taking some kind of stand. It would be much harder for them to make any case for termination then, whereas now it could be something as weak as “it just wasn’t a good fit.”
*stalks away plotting and scheming*
That appeals to me in a great many ways 🙂 Sadly, I tend to stick with a brutal lesson I learned from an attorney I worked for once upon a time. “You can have all the rights in the world, but if you can’t afford to litigate, what good are they?”
On the other hand, one of the things I *do* like about this place is that’s it’s generally a cause I’m very happy to support (health and wellbeing of mothers and newborns kinda gives me the warm fuzzies). Maybe I could post that paragraph with impunity. I don’t know. But if things went south, I’d feel bad finding out my feel-good employer has a dark side and worse about hurting the good part because of the blindspots only a few here might have.
And on the other hand (what, 3 hands?…After I make it past my 3 month probationary period I’d feel a lot more secure in taking some kind of stand. It would be much harder for them to make any case for termination then, whereas now it could be something as weak as “it just wasn’t a good fit.”
*stalks away plotting and scheming*
Advice I always give people in these kinds of uneasy situations: document, document, document….
Advice I always give people in these kinds of uneasy situations: document, document, document….